What Place (if any) for Politics on Curvage?

[thadrou90]

I hope I'm not needlessly retreading old ground here. I see there are some older threads either actively raising political issues, usually about whether FAs skew to the right, but I want to discuss a somewhat different, more meta question:

Is there any role for political discussion/commentary on this site, and if so of what sort, and under what circumstances?

Politics comes up every now and then in a thread and usually derails it, turning us away from posting and admiring pics and vids and instead turning to heated accusations and name-calling. I tend to think that on a forum composed of strangers who have little to no existing trust or credibility with each other, political conversations tend to devolve like this pretty quickly. In general, I worry that there's virtually nothing to be gained by political conversations in this particular space, and that we're all best served by sticking to the thing we can all (sort of) agree on, the thing that brought us all here in the first place: posting about fat women.

In the Lana del Rey thread, though, @Verlorener brought up a nice, nuanced point:

Quote

I bring up political stuff on here but only as it pertains to fat acceptance, body positivity, things like that. In theory, you would think everyone here would agree with that, but I won’t play dumb; BP obviously had a very left-wing vibe to it and many people will automatically dislike it because of that.

Further, most fascists say that fat admirers are degenerates (see: the Sigrun Engel subplot in Wolfenstein 2). So I like to think that they are fair game to shit on in this site as long as you stick to their views about weight.

It's hard to disagree with that. Fat, as they say, is inherently political, so even if we agree that most of politics is beyond the scope of what we do here and that we should stick to talking about fat, that can and does sometimes lead back to politics.

So I'm curious to know, from mods and ordinary members alike: what do you think? Are there specific ways it's appropriate to touch on politics when we touch on fat? When's the right time and place to do that? What kinds of comments should we limit ourselves to? Or is it safest to avoid it altogether?

[jarlewski]

On 10/21/2020 at 12:50 PM, thadrou90 said:

In general, I worry that there's virtually nothing to be gained by political conversations in this particular space, and that we're all best served by sticking to the thing we can all (sort of) agree on, the thing that brought us all here in the first place: posting about fat women.

If what brings us here is posting about fat women, then we have a duty to act in ways that benefit fat women. I understand that everyone has different political views, and that many people aren't looking for anything more than fatsexual content, but it's bonkers to continue on as if we shouldn't care. Even if one looks at this in the most debasing way, that fat women are nothing more than objects to help others get off, it's an incredibly short-sighted worldview.

At a bare minimum, it makes sense to establish norms that new members to the community can follow, so that we're doing better tomorrow than we did today.

[Guest Marshall7]

I dont trust things not to devolve into name calling if the past is any indicator so my 2 cents is to steer clear. But people will bring up what they want. Just understand if stuff does devolve, it usually ends up in the abyss lol. Just, please, let's not go around calling people nazis, white supremacists and racists who AREN'T. Lol

[jarlewski]

It feels like we're far past the point of saying that we should choose inaction to encourage civility. I don't think name-calling is worth the bandwidth either, but I don't trust that doing nothing will get us the results we want.

Again, if we strip down why we're here to ridiculously simplistic terms, it's because we want to see more content that features fat women. Thirty years ago, the big, obvious limiting factor was technology. Now, it's society, so we've got to take certain political actions in order to see more of what we want. Strictly adhering to an apolitical stance reduces the amount of content and access to it instead of increasing it.

For example, I don't expect others to adopt my views on how fat women should be treated, but at a bare minimum, fat women should be treated like they're people with feelings. Simply put: harassment and a lack of acceptance of fat women, online and offline, reduces content. Anyone who is in favor of that is immediately suspect to me, and I'm arguing we should be doing more to put that shit in its place. I'd rather someone write an angry post calling me names than have web models walk away from the community because they're tired of putting up with bullshit without anyone defending them. Because, truthfully, the name-calling goes both ways: if you say, hey, we need to do better for these people so they create more content (which is as self-serving and incredibly divorced from any sort of left vs. right debate as it could be), you'll likely get called a white knight or a simp. 

And in that case, then yeah, well, we're all simps - I'd rather waste my breath supporting fat women instead of defending a politician that doesn't even support my self-serving desire for more content.

[dania201]

I don’t think it’s an overstatement to think that when it comes to fat acceptance, women’s issues, and permissibility of diverse sexualities and sex work that it would be reasonable for Curvage folks to opine. If we are talking positions on the Taiwan issue, for example, I don’t think it’s as helpful here. Other places to do that. 

[thadrou90]

Seems like that for those who want something more than mute inaction, sticking to political expression that's directly relevant to and supportive of the mission of this site is the position we're converging on. I think I agree with that, and maybe reserving "not going there" for more irrelevant political conversation. @MarshallT as you say, thanks to good moderation those conversations end up in the Abyss sooner or later anyway, so we can be grateful for that. And I completely agree, @jarlewski, that everyone who posts or is posted about on this board deserves basic human respect and decency, regardless of anybody's politics.

I wonder sometimes, too, about the particular case of the Fat Politicians thread I started in 2018. The people we post there span the political spectrum, but I wonder if anyone's politics should be considered so heinous, so out-of-bounds, that we shouldn't post them there at all. The problem with that is that everyone draws that line differently...

[Guest Mr Froggy]

I agree that 'fat' and 'sex work' (which is broadly what our models practice) is inherently political - and thus even seemingly innocuous comments made by users can set off a huge political debate and derail threads.   

The thing I roll my eyes at though is the presumption many users have that them bringing something up ("calling something out" /"taking a stand") is the first time the discussion has been had.   Whether it be the common subject of "Are unsolicited fat shaming comments misogynist?" or "Should the candids forum even be allowed?"... Often people will storm in with this puritanical, interventionist (and dare I say... Simpy/white Knight) hot taks and not realise the very same discussion has been had two dozen times before -  and it always just gets locked and sent to the abyss because the mods are (wisely imo) in support of the forum status quo and free speech. 

[Guest You have a belly]

3 hours ago, thadrou90 said:

I wonder sometimes, too, about the particular case of the Fat Politicians thread I started in 2018. The people we post there span the political spectrum, but I wonder if anyone's politics should be considered so heinous, so out-of-bounds, that we shouldn't post them there at all. The problem with that is that everyone draws that line differently...

Yeah, I would actually go one further. Interrogate pop singers on a variety of hot issues before we decide if they're kosher to fap to. Actually, let's exclusively post pictures of AOC. I mean anywhere on the forum. Just to be on the safe side. And Ghandi.

[thadrou90]

51 minutes ago, You have a belly said:

Yeah, I would actually go one further. Interrogate pop singers on a variety of hot issues before we decide if they're kosher to fap to. Actually, let's exclusively post pictures of AOC. I mean anywhere on the forum. Just to be on the safe side. And Ghandi.

I mean, to be clear, I haven't actually drawn this line anywhere yet for the purposes of that thread. But the question crosses my mind, and I wanted to articulate it. I know there's a relatively small fraction of people in politics whose positions are unacceptably monstrous to me, and I wouldn't love valorizing them in the thread if they happened to be fat. But it's such a fringe concern that it may never come up!

[jarlewski]

1 hour ago, Mr Froggy said:

The thing I roll my eyes at though is the presumption many users have that them bringing something up ("calling something out" /"taking a stand") is the first time the discussion has been had.   Whether it be the common subject of "Are unsolicited fat shaming comments misogynist?" or "Should the candids forum even be allowed?"... Often people will storm in with this puritanical, interventionist (and dare I say... Simpy/white Knight) hot taks and not realise the very same discussion has been had two dozen times before -  and it always just gets locked and sent to the abyss because the mods are (wisely imo) in support of the forum status quo and free speech. 

This is why I think that focusing on norms and "what the community stands for" is important - there's always going to be new people with new-to-them ideas engaging with users who have been here forever and users that are just here for porn. To them, their hot takes seem hot, because there's often times not enough being done to clearly state what is okay and what is not. For example, something that's been talked to death seemingly everywhere is whether or not it's okay for guys to date fat women in secret, because they're still "in the closet." The answer seems obvious (no, it's not helpful to anyone), but still, new people will bring it up all the time, because it's not something that gets discussed often outside of sites like this one.

It seems really odd to me that we're all ostensibly one issue voters - we want more quality content of fat women - but there seems like there's a vocal minority that wants to make this about American politics and toxic masculinity issues (and when you call them on it, they will throw a fit about how this is liberal cancel culture or whatever, instead of explaining how their point of view is going to get me more pictures of Spider-Man fat women).

 

4 hours ago, thadrou90 said:

I wonder sometimes, too, about the particular case of the Fat Politicians thread I started in 2018. The people we post there span the political spectrum, but I wonder if anyone's politics should be considered so heinous, so out-of-bounds, that we shouldn't post them there at all. The problem with that is that everyone draws that line differently...

It sucks, and I really wish this could be a discussion about how we could be doing better for people as human beings that deserve respect, but this is 2020, so I'm playing this where it landed. That said, for at least the debate of how to incorporate politics into the community, I'm sticking with the simplistic "does this benefit us by increasing the amount of quality content focused on fat women." 

To bring up an example that Mr Froggy mentioned: I'm personally against candids and feel that it's a bad look, BUT I understand that my feelings don't really matter when compared to "does this benefit us by increasing the amount of quality content focused on fat women" consideration. There's obviously people that like it, as it increases their access to pictures of fat women, and that's kinda how it goes... until it begins to reduce the amount of content focused on fat women. If, for example, models and female users are put off by the use of candids as porn and don't want to interact with a community that does that shit, then, well, sorry, that's now something that very much matters, because it's limiting my access to fat lady porn.

It's difficult for me to say how anything should ultimately be considered by the community, because I don't run websites and I don't make porn. 

But I do feel there are some low hanging fruits that are pretty easy to pick, like where to draw the line with who gets posted in what context. If the Fat Politicians thread was all about drooling over fascists and fatphobic politicians that very much are against us having more access to content featuring fat women, that'd be a no-brainer. If there was a discussion about the American Supreme Court, it would be obvious to feature the things that certain justices have been doing to reduce our access to content featuring fat women. And obviously, there should be more consideration and support for fat women, because they are, not shocking, the number one source of content featuring fat women.

[thadrou90]

2 minutes ago, jarlewski said:

But I do feel there are some low hanging fruits that are pretty easy to pick, like where to draw the line with who gets posted in what context. If the Fat Politicians thread was all about drooling over fascists and fatphobic politicians that very much are against us having more access to content featuring fat women, that'd be a no-brainer. If there was a discussion about the American Supreme Court, it would be obvious to feature the things that certain justices have been doing to reduce our access to content featuring fat women. And obviously, there should be more consideration and support for fat women, because they are, not shocking, the number one source of content featuring fat women.

Where can I vote to elect you as the moderator of political content on Curvage?

[jarlewski]

Just now, thadrou90 said:

Where can I vote to elect you as the moderator of political content on Curvage?

I'd be terrible at that, because I'm personally opposed to people who treat American politics like they're sport and the only thing that matters. 

The only majority opinion I can easily identify is that users here love content featuring fat women, and it makes sense to start there instead of bringing up... AOC? Like... what? Who cares? Regardless of what I personally think of her, unless she's switching her Twitch channel to competitive eating and mukbang content, I don't see why you'd even bring her up.

But there are absolutely certain people and practices that do not have our best interests in mind if we're all pro-fat-women-content, and I feel like we could do a better job at figuring that shit out instead of fighting about... squints in a Samuel Johnson fashion ...Ghandi Gandhi?

[Guest Mr Froggy]

42 minutes ago, jarlewski said:

This is why I think that focusing on norms and "what the community stands for" is important - there's always going to be new people with new-to-them ideas engaging with users who have been here forever and users that are just here for porn. To them, their hot takes seem hot, because there's often times not enough being done to clearly state what is okay and what is not. For example, something that's been talked to death seemingly everywhere is whether or not it's okay for guys to date fat women in secret, because they're still "in the closet." The answer seems obvious (no, it's not helpful to anyone), but still, new people will bring it up all the time, because it's not something that gets discussed often outside of sites like this one.

It seems really odd to me that we're all ostensibly one issue voters - we want more quality content of fat women - but there seems like there's a vocal minority that wants to make this about American politics and toxic masculinity issues (and when you call them on it, they will throw a fit about how this is liberal cancel culture or whatever, instead of explaining how their point of view is going to get me more pictures of Spider-Man fat women).

 

It sucks, and I really wish this could be a discussion about how we could be doing better for people as human beings that deserve respect, but this is 2020, so I'm playing this where it landed. That said, for at least the debate of how to incorporate politics into the community, I'm sticking with the simplistic "does this benefit us by increasing the amount of quality content focused on fat women." 

To bring up an example that Mr Froggy mentioned: I'm personally against candids and feel that it's a bad look, BUT I understand that my feelings don't really matter when compared to "does this benefit us by increasing the amount of quality content focused on fat women" consideration. There's obviously people that like it, as it increases their access to pictures of fat women, and that's kinda how it goes... until it begins to reduce the amount of content focused on fat women. If, for example, models and female users are put off by the use of candids as porn and don't want to interact with a community that does that shit, then, well, sorry, that's now something that very much matters, because it's limiting my access to fat lady porn.

It's difficult for me to say how anything should ultimately be considered by the community, because I don't run websites and I don't make porn. 

But I do feel there are some low hanging fruits that are pretty easy to pick, like where to draw the line with who gets posted in what context. If the Fat Politicians thread was all about drooling over fascists and fatphobic politicians that very much are against us having more access to content featuring fat women, that'd be a no-brainer. If there was a discussion about the American Supreme Court, it would be obvious to feature the things that certain justices have been doing to reduce our access to content featuring fat women. And obviously, there should be more consideration and support for fat women, because they are, not shocking, the number one source of content featuring fat women.

I admire your rather utilitarian take on this - though I think the question of "what this site stands for" is a difficult one. 

My main objection is to the kind of harder left 'empathy tyrants' who come along and try to tone police what is "acceptable" here.   Usually they draw their confidence from their assumption that because this site has the stated goal of "furthering fat acceptance" / "celebrating curves"... that therefore we must "respect women" in so far as we should 'defer' to their judgements on fetish related issues and not speak in a disrespectful or dominant way about them (such as fat shaming the anon girls in the candids forum etc).  

We seem to have an issue of "constitutional interpretation" going on.   Re - when the site says its about 'celebrating curvy women'.... If you take it at face value then sure, we should defer to female judgements and refrain from the more problematic aspects of kinky fat-shaming etc.... but in reality, the mods recognise that fat fetishism (for many) is inherently a  'soft misogynist' and Dom preference to have;  where any 'respect' afforded to the women involved only goes so far as respecting them as a product to be consumed.   If they took a hard line constructivist stance,  the site's membership (and profit) would ultimately dwindle.  

[jarlewski]

9 minutes ago, Mr Froggy said:

If you take it at face value then sure, we should defer to female judgements and refrain from the more problematic aspects of kinky fat-shaming etc.... but in reality, the mods recognise that fat fetishism (for many) is inherently a  'soft misogynist' and Dom preference to have;  where any 'respect' afforded to the women involved only goes so far as respecting them as a product to be consumed.   If they took a hard line constructivist stance,  the site's membership (and profit) would ultimately dwindle.  

That's partially my reasoning behind why we should be taking a stance on something, somewhere - I understand that in order to accomplish the goal of more fat women content, there has to be a difference between those who run sites and make porn versus the community that consumes and critiques it. My own political views aren't always in line with my personal choice to engage in feederism and BDSM stuff (which is one reason why I'm very much against doxxing and threatening someone's lifestyle with what they choose to do in the context of this fetish/community), and I try to keep that in mind whenever I talk about politics, especially in this community. But, that said, I do try to make sense of it whenever I can, erring on the side of my political views instead of my personal preferences (because I'm probably going to be dead, eventually).  

I do think that the problematic aspects of kinky fat-shaming, etc. can and will exist alongside 'celebrating curvy women,' especially if we act in ways that benefit both users and fat women. I'm far from perfect, but I do "openly" date a fat woman, have dated many fat women, and continue to talk to most of my friends about being "ride or die" for fat women. But when a female friend asks me for advice about working out and losing weight, there's absolutely going to be an awkward moment when she realizes that she's asking the wolf for tips on how to secure the henhouse. (A friend sent pictures of her "quarantine stretchmarks" to a group chat, and I had to throw myself under the bus and explain that I'm cool if she's cool, but in my language, that's getting flirty with the lesbian at the all-girls slumber party.) I value my friendships over my desire for fat women content at any cost, so I'll act accordingly, but we're all aware how that is not always exactly in line with how I act elsewhere. Which we all seem to be cool about, given that we're adults and can figure things out in a more or less mature way.

And yet, I've also told friends (and ex-girlfriends) that were interested in making money or gaining weight that they should check out modeling or making fetish content, because even if I'm not sexually attracted to them, it seems like that's something that would benefit everyone involved. 

My point is that there seems to be more than enough room for the community to be political, to further fat acceptance and to listen to fat women about how to do better, to establish norms and take stances against toxic bullshit, because there's the constraint of capitalism on site owners/creators and the safety rope of "more fat girl tiddies, plz" tied to any argument/debate that goes down around here. (As someone that is harder left than most, that can feel more like a noose than a safety rope, but that's on me to figure out.) The site doesn't need to stand for anything, because it's simply a forum, but as a community, we wield political power that can help or harm our goal. Inaction seems like a bad use of that power, given what we'd all prefer.

[Guest Mr Froggy]

21 minutes ago, jarlewski said:

That's partially my reasoning behind why we should be taking a stance on something, somewhere - I understand that in order to accomplish the goal of more fat women content, there has to be a difference between those who run sites and make porn versus the community that consumes and critiques it. My own political views aren't always in line with my personal choice to engage in feederism and BDSM stuff (which is one reason why I'm very much against doxxing and threatening someone's lifestyle with what they choose to do in the context of this fetish/community), and I try to keep that in mind whenever I talk about politics, especially in this community. But, that said, I do try to make sense of it whenever I can, erring on the side of my political views instead of my personal preferences (because I'm probably going to be dead, eventually).  

I do think that the problematic aspects of kinky fat-shaming, etc. can and will exist alongside 'celebrating curvy women,' especially if we act in ways that benefit both users and fat women. I'm far from perfect, but I do "openly" date a fat woman, have dated many fat women, and continue to talk to most of my friends about being "ride or die" for fat women. But when a female friend asks me for advice about working out and losing weight, there's absolutely going to be an awkward moment when she realizes that she's asking the wolf for tips on how to secure the henhouse. (A friend sent pictures of her "quarantine stretchmarks" to a group chat, and I had to throw myself under the bus and explain that I'm cool if she's cool, but in my language, that's getting flirty with the lesbian at the all-girls slumber party.) I value my friendships over my desire for fat women content at any cost, so I'll act accordingly, but we're all aware how that is not always exactly in line with how I act elsewhere. Which we all seem to be cool about, given that we're adults and can figure things out in a more or less mature way.

And yet, I've also told friends (and ex-girlfriends) that were interested in making money or gaining weight that they should check out modeling or making fetish content, because even if I'm not sexually attracted to them, it seems like that's something that would benefit everyone involved. 

My point is that there seems to be more than enough room for the community to be political, to further fat acceptance and to listen to fat women about how to do better, to establish norms and take stances against toxic bullshit, because there's the constraint of capitalism on site owners/creators and the safety rope of "more fat girl tiddies, plz" tied to any argument/debate that goes down around here. (As someone that is harder left than most, that can feel more like a noose than a safety rope, but that's on me to figure out.) The site doesn't need to stand for anything, because it's simply a forum, but as a community, we wield political power that can help or harm our goal. Inaction seems like a bad use of that power, given what we'd all prefer.

Very well put - and I agree with a lot of it - though I suspect the devil will be in the detail.  We can all agree standout examples like doxing, harassment etc are bad but one man's "toxic bullshit" may be another man's kink or free speech. 

I personally take issue with a content creator dictating precisely how I may consume their content.   A lot of this tends to go on in the more progressive / sex-positive and body-positive online spaces associated with this fetish.   Many of the more progressive (female) creators presume an entitlement to "take a moral stand" and essentially dictate how their content may be regarded, referred to and consumed;  almost like they've taken Feminism to mean that their male consumers truly ARE 'simps' and that she is the goddess descending from on high with the material AND the moral conditions of its use. 

I've seen those on the harder left make presumptuous dictations in so far as which 'way' I (as a consumer) am 'permitted' to 'gaze' at them;  which attitudes towards women I must hold whilst I do;  the tone I must take when addressing to (or even merely referring to her) in the presence of other consumers;  the parts of her body I am / am not permitted to be aroused by etc. 

In my view, none of that is for the content creator to decide;   they're a person behind the camera - but online, they're a product - and provided im not breaking any laws, I may consume their content in as toxic or problematic manner as I wish. 

[Guest Marshall7]

See, the name calling has already happened here. Just calling certain people fascists outright without evidence. This is why im just opposed to any political talk whatsoever in the end. I have made the mistake in the past of discussing it and no longer endorse arguing or discussing politics on this site except right now to say it's a bad idea. But feel free to go down this path if you wish. Haha

[jarlewski]

34 minutes ago, MarshallT said:

See, the name calling has already happened here. Just calling certain people fascists outright without evidence.

I'm assuming you're referencing what I said, but I do not understand at what point I called certain people fascists. I said fascists are bad for content, because authoritarianism and the regimentation of society reduces the amount of porn we're able to create and consume. If you're pro-fascism or in favor of the government blocking access to content, then, yeah, I guess I might call you names if we met outside of an online forum, but otherwise, it looks like you're upset that I... referenced fascism as a bad thing?

EDIT: Yeah, okay, I'm being snarky, but come on. Certain things may be politically charged or "signal" that I don't agree with others, but that doesn't make them suck any less. Like, for example, The Great Firewall of China sucks ass, big time. 

 

40 minutes ago, Mr Froggy said:

We can all agree standout examples like doxing, harassment etc are bad but one man's "toxic bullshit" may be another man's kink or free speech. 

I think that's why we'd be better off, as a community, focusing on standout examples and the stuff that we can change that we agree on. Might still be challenging, but if it makes things better for the community, it's worth the effort.

By comparison, I disagree with you on how people should talk to or about fat women, but as I said before, if that's not getting in the way of more content, that's on me to figure out, not you. (How this site and others choose to regulate speech and tone is their own deal, separate from the community, because they're trying to keep the lights on first and foremost.) We're not trying to put a fat woman on the Moon here (at least not at first), so it only makes sense to build a train and not a rocket.

[eliza_]

I do think that politics have a place here. What happens on this site certainly isn't apolitical as you mentioned in your first post. Sexuality, fatness, sex work, consent, feminism, they're all so relevant. I wish someone much smarter than me would write about how it all intersects. 

I'm coming at this from a different angle to most on here maybe being a woman myself but to me the obvious political goal of people on this site should be to give dignity to fat women and to promote fat acceptance. I think this would benefit fat admirers in multiple ways; our sexuality wouldn't be seen as so deviant/weird/shameful, more fat women represented in media, movies, shows and the like, presumably more fat women and more weight gain in general if being fat wasn't some cardinal sin that removed your worth as a human being. 

Obviously the group who would benefit most from these changes would be fat women which is why I think they aren't more widely adopted/discussed by the men on here. It really contrasts with the queer spaces I'm in online to watch 'regular' porn. In those places there's much more political unity. Everyone there is obviously against homophobia because that prejudice doesn't just affect the people you're sexually interested in it affects you too. Contrast to here where it's very one sided. Fat phobia, sexism and the like might be extremely detrimental to the women in the porn they consume but it doesn't affect the men watching at all or in fact actively benefits them. So I guess I think that the belief that fat people deserve respect and dignity should be promoted.

 To speak further on sexism I think that there are some terrifying attitudes towards women on here. In some cases its clear that people just despise women but there's also more subtle objectifying and dehumanising stuff thats really scary too. A few months ago my friend told me that her boyfriend had raped her. He had wanted to try something, he had kept asking her again and again even though every time she said no. He kept bringing up how 'she'd like it when she tried it'. Eventually he wore her down. She was sobbing over the phone telling me. What i found scary is that I knew exactly what he'd been thinking. He didn't want to hurt her, he just had a sexual fantasy he wanted to fulfil. She was only a 1D character in it who'd have the emotions he wanted her to have, the emotions that he found arousing. He wasn't considering her as a whole living breathing human being but only as something to sexually satisfy him. I think this type of thinking happens a lot on her. Fantasies that are brought up over and over again, we project our fantasies onto women, imagining that they have the thoughts and feelings that play into our fetish. At best this is harmless but it can be taken to scary and damaging places. These are real living human beings. So point 2 is that the underlying humanity of the women shouldn't be forgotten. 

I think that these should be brought up. And yeah they're not very sexy and I'm sure plenty on here will want to ignore this shit. But its essential to doing this shit ethically. People  should be able to have their fantasies without shame. There's nothing wrong with being into fat women or weight gain. But you have to  A) be able to tell the difference between your fantasy and reality and b) not contribute to the oppression of the people you're lusting over. 

[Guest high]

I come here to unwind, much like I previously used to with sports. 

Bring politics into the mix and it's no longer fun and I'm going to turn into an asshole and ruin it for you, too, so it's painful to come here.

[thadrou90]

On 10/24/2020 at 9:07 PM, eliza_ said:

Obviously the group who would benefit most from these changes would be fat women which is why I think they aren't more widely adopted/discussed by the men on here. It really contrasts with the queer spaces I'm in online to watch 'regular' porn. In those places there's much more political unity. Everyone there is obviously against homophobia because that prejudice doesn't just affect the people you're sexually interested in it affects you too. Contrast to here where it's very one sided. Fat phobia, sexism and the like might be extremely detrimental to the women in the porn they consume but it doesn't affect the men watching at all or in fact actively benefits them. So I guess I think that the belief that fat people deserve respect and dignity should be promoted.

 To speak further on sexism I think that there are some terrifying attitudes towards women on here. In some cases its clear that people just despise women but there's also more subtle objectifying and dehumanising stuff thats really scary too. A few months ago my friend told me that her boyfriend had raped her. He had wanted to try something, he had kept asking her again and again even though every time she said no. He kept bringing up how 'she'd like it when she tried it'. Eventually he wore her down. She was sobbing over the phone telling me. What i found scary is that I knew exactly what he'd been thinking. He didn't want to hurt her, he just had a sexual fantasy he wanted to fulfil. She was only a 1D character in it who'd have the emotions he wanted her to have, the emotions that he found arousing. He wasn't considering her as a whole living breathing human being but only as something to sexually satisfy him. I think this type of thinking happens a lot on her. Fantasies that are brought up over and over again, we project our fantasies onto women, imagining that they have the thoughts and feelings that play into our fetish. At best this is harmless but it can be taken to scary and damaging places. These are real living human beings. So point 2 is that the underlying humanity of the women shouldn't be forgotten.

Thank you for saying this, as it's totally spot on. The bottom line is that FAs and feeders can be total pigs (in the sexist sense, not our lovey ** sense), and it's not a contradiction for them if they're not committed to engaging with women as fellow, equal human beings. Your comment about queer sex spaces online is really illuminating. But I'm so sorry to hear about what your friend's bodyfriend did to her. It's horrifying and abominable, but also, as you say, totally consistent with his thinking he only had good intentions. Always a possible outcome when men (or anyone heedless of their privilege) take indulgence in their kink as an insuperable prerogative and treat others in their lives merely as characters in their fantasy.

[chubbybutt22]

There’s no such thing as being apolitical. Also. I feel like if you’re on a fat and sex positive website we should be able to agree on a few things: birth control (duh), health care, porn and sex work being legal and accessible, etc. 

[Guest high]

5 hours ago, chubbybutt22 said:

There’s no such thing as being apolitical. Also. I feel like if you’re on a fat and sex positive website we should be able to agree on a few things: birth control (duh), health care, porn and sex work being legal and accessible, etc. 

Nothing positive has ever been gained by inserting unaccountable government leeches with big pay and benefits between me and anything, much less my health care. Go stuff it. You obviously have no idea how many medical professionals were ready to leave if obamacare stayed the way it was intended.

[chubbybutt22]

6 minutes ago, high said:

Nothing positive has ever been gained by inserting unaccountable government leeches with big pay and benefits between me and anything, much less my health care. Go stuff it. You obviously have no idea how many medical professionals were ready to leave if obamacare stayed the way it was intended.

Oh. My guy. I’m not gonna do this. I’m out. 

[cheddar]

On 10/24/2020 at 7:25 AM, MarshallT said:

Just calling certain people fascists outright without evidence.

14 hours ago, high said:

Nothing positive has ever been gained by inserting unaccountable government leeches with big pay and benefits between me and anything, much less my health care. Go stuff it. You obviously have no idea how many medical professionals were ready to leave if obamacare stayed the way it was intended.

Remember, when people disagree, they're hurting your feelings and calling you fascist. When you parrot neocon talking points, it's clearly acceptable. Also, haven't forgotten that you were both knighting the dude that got banned for blatant anti-Semitism (among other things).

US politics is presently in a toxic state, due almost entirely to the failure to achieve any kind of national consensus on even such basic questions as 'should we stop gerrymandering?', 'should rich people be allowed to price the poor out of existence?', 'has trickle-down economics failed?' and 'should people I disagree with be allowed to vote?'

[Guest Marshall7]

Lol 🤣