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So Mary got doxxed and ** blocked talking about it


goodgirlgrow

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49 minutes ago, finalhazardark said:

Not to sound like a conspiracy theorist, but if her father is a famous public figure than maybe it was mainly done as an attack against him? Trying to dig up dirt on his family? I'm not saying people in this community aren't capable of pulling shit like this as they have before, but idk it just kind of sprang to mind.

Ehh. He’s not THAT famous. Most people probably wouldn’t recognize his name

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Guest StirCrazy94545
On 10/21/2020 at 12:37 AM, Wendy said:

So creepy. Now I want to delete ALL my social media and such for like 100+ years. 😥

Or at least delete geo tags http://www.exifpurge.com/ and make sure your full name's not on anything like wish lists or receipts or your boss' diplomas aren't visible in the background if you get busy on his desk in your new video

Edited by StirCrazy94545
Moar infosec
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9 hours ago, Mr Froggy said:

Doxxing is entirely inexcusable but because of that, there's not really much to add in a discussion like this without venturing more into the dangerous territory of hindsight and constructive victim blaming. 

For a popular model who shows their face - doxing is almost a foregone conclusion now (and certainly to be considered an occupational hazard).  It's not so much about 'if' anymore but 'when'.  

Good infosec is a must but creators can also help themselves by practicing 'security by obscurity'.  Don't court controversy etc.  The star that burns twice as bright, burns but half as long etc. 

I.E if you're trying to be an "anonymous" face-showing model and being doxed would "ruin your life"... maybe don't start using such a highly precarious platform to start offering up highly controversial political opinions.  

Nope. The fact that one’s face exists on the internet does not in any way make it okay for someone else to maliciously try to wreck that person’s life. 

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Guest Mr Froggy
17 minutes ago, dania201 said:

Nope. The fact that one’s face exists on the internet does not in any way make it okay for someone else to maliciously try to wreck that person’s life. 

Did you even read my first sentence? 

OK? No.   Predicable? Yes. 

 

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Guest StirCrazy94545
23 minutes ago, dania201 said:

Nope. The fact that one’s face exists on the internet does not in any way make it okay for someone else to maliciously try to wreck that person’s life. 

Not even one's full face, not anymore. Unfortunately, the half-masked pics and vids from years ago are still out there to be run through new software.

https://www.securitymagazine.com/articles/92140-straight-talk-about-face-masks-and-face-recognition

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2019/05/190501114602.htm

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Guest Mr Froggy
10 minutes ago, dania201 said:

I did. Your first sentence says it would be a bad idea to victim-blame, and then the rest of your post proceeds to do it. 

I never said it was a bad idea to victim blame.  I was implying I hate the willfully disingenuous way in which people normally conduct these kind of discussions;  they use them like a big circle jerk to show their moral purity.  "OmG this is terrible, I can't believe this has happened, this is totally unacceptable!" 

Yeah that's nice and everything - but it doesn't help at all in avoiding it happening again. 

It is irrational and morally puritanical to consider "victim blaming" off limits in grown up discussions about personal risk management.   We shouldn't need to tell people to lock their front doors at night (because people just shouldn't steal! - oMG DoNt BlAmE ThE vIcTiM etc) but in reality humans are governed more by practicality than principle. 

 

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13 minutes ago, Mr Froggy said:

 I was implying I hate the willfully disingenuous way in which people normally conduct these kind of discussions;  they use them like a big circle jerk to show their moral purity.  "OmG this is terrible, I can't believe this has happened, this is totally unacceptable!"

Wowsers can you tell us what our star signs are too?

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Guest StirCrazy94545
3 hours ago, goodgirlgrow said:

This is sort of supposed to be a discussion of what we can do better. Not “don’t blame the victim” OR “everything’s eventual.” 

The first doxing I heard of was around 2000 or so. A 'mainstream' porn star who had retired and got a straight world job, techie boyfriend, etc., got doxxed and much of her post-porn life was wrecked. Reasonable precautions for the 1990s weren't enough when the 2000s rolled around, and reasonable precautions now won't be enough come 2025. I really don't know what to do now that will stand the test of time and ever improving Big Data AI, besides having gone dark since birth. Maybe. Things like Google Search by Image, TinEye, and Nero's organizing photos by faces will only get smarter.

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Guest StirCrazy94545
4 hours ago, Mr Froggy said:

I never said it was a bad idea to victim blame.  I was implying I hate the willfully disingenuous way in which people normally conduct these kind of discussions;  they use them like a big circle jerk to show their moral purity.  "OmG this is terrible, I can't believe this has happened, this is totally unacceptable!" 

Yeah that's nice and everything - but it doesn't help at all in avoiding it happening again. 

It is irrational and morally puritanical to consider "victim blaming" off limits in grown up discussions about personal risk management.   We shouldn't need to tell people to lock their front doors at night (because people just shouldn't steal! - oMG DoNt BlAmE ThE vIcTiM etc) but in reality humans are governed more by practicality than principle.

That guy was totally asking to get mugged, going out in public dressed in a nice suit like that, flashing that expensive watch and those high end leather shoes. He may as well been letting his wallet hang out, dangling his Amex Centurion for all to see. What was he thinking?

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Guest Mr Froggy
8 minutes ago, StirCrazy94545 said:

That guy was totally asking to get mugged, going out in public dressed in a nice suit like that, flashing that expensive watch and those high end leather shoes. He may as well been letting his wallet hang out, dangling his Amex Centurion for all to see. What was he thinking?

Exactly.   If he took a wander through a dangerous neighbourhood dressed like that... He was practically aSkInG fOr It

I'm not being ironic here.   Getting yourself into such a situation is a foolish thing to do.   

Virtue signalling and effective, practical risk mitigation are often mutually exclusive. 

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Guest StirCrazy94545
13 minutes ago, Mr Froggy said:

Exactly.   If he took a wander through a dangerous neighbourhood dressed like that... He was practically aSkInG fOr It

I'm not being ironic here.   Getting yourself into such a situation is a foolish thing to do.   

Virtue signalling and effective, practical risk mitigation are often mutually exclusive. 

A dangerous neighborhood like between the car park and the office building? Maybe on the route between the train station and work, like what happened to someone else I knew. It happens everywhere, it can happen anywhere, it can happen to anyone, and if you're so foolish as to go outside, it can happen to you.

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I get the “lock your doors” principle and all, but if we are all just trading richtext via VPNs to explore feedism from now on? In an age of face recognition software, how the hell can anyone share their journey with us without “basically just asking” for their personal lives to be invaded by people trying to hurt them? 
 

You see where this logic goes, right? Nobody shares anything and we are all better off? 

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Guest Mr Froggy
Just now, StirCrazy94545 said:

A dangerous neighborhood like between the car park and the office building? Maybe on the route between the train station and work, like what happened to someone else I knew. It happens everywhere, it can happen anywhere, it can happen to anyone, and if you're so foolish as to go outside, it can happen to you.

False equivalence fallacy. 

We aren't talking about a random forum member being doxxed here (which would be most analogous to the example you stated of "just walking to your car"). 

We're talking about someone who showed their face, courted an online following, monetised their content to lonely, socially stunted men and posted politically controversial statements.. and yet still had the (foolishly deluded) expectation to think they weren't playing with fire.    That's much more akin to "walking through a dangerous neighbourhood covered in bank notes" than "simply walking innocently to their car from the office". 

Why does no one want to admit this?   Doxing is an occupational hazard if you're showing your face -  yeah it's terrible and I'd support the prosecution of anyone who does it - but I don't delude myself into thinking we can stop it by merely "showing solidarity" with those it happens to. 

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Guest StirCrazy94545
1 minute ago, dania201 said:

I get the “lock your doors” principle and all, but if we are all just trading richtext via VPNs to explore feedism from now on? In an age of face recognition software, how the hell can anyone share their journey with us without “basically just asking” for their personal lives to be invaded by people trying to hurt them? 
 

You see where this logic goes, right? Nobody shares anything and we are all better off? 

Plaintext, BBCode, or maybe simple early 90s HTML, stored and uploaded as plain ASCII or, if you feel lucky, UTF-8. You never know what Word might be embedding in that rich text file unless you can read hexdumps.

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Guest Mr Froggy
18 minutes ago, dania201 said:

I get the “lock your doors” principle and all, but if we are all just trading richtext via VPNs to explore feedism from now on? In an age of face recognition software, how the hell can anyone share their journey with us without “basically just asking” for their personal lives to be invaded by people trying to hurt them? 
 

You see where this logic goes, right? Nobody shares anything and we are all better off? 

Short answer - they can't.  Not anymore... Not with the technology that is becoming available.  Not if they grow a following beyond a certain size - and CERTAINLY not if they proudly espouse political opinions which run counter to those held by the majority of their 'fans'. 

Playing with fire. 

We aren't going to stop this happening by attempting to 'shame' those who have already done it imo.   I'm just trying to make it clear how huge and constant a risk this sort of thing is now - so that content creators who wish to retain anonymity long term need to be extremely careful. 

The mentor girls on the larger clipsites will tell you the exact same thing.  If you show your face and grow a following beyond a certain size - you must be mentally prepared that it's going to be a question of 'when' and not 'if' you are doxxed.   Feederism sites aren't any different from onlyfans etc in this regard. 

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  • Curvage Model

I feel like this became a fucking pissing match of things you all learned your first year in college.

If you feel it’s content creators’ responsibility, what do you suggest they do?

if you feel it’s the hosting sites’ responsibility, what do you suggest?

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  • Curvage Model

Lastly... this is more like your boss stealing from your paycheck or someshit. It’s not a random crime. It’s like burning down the corner store after the owner raised the price on beer. It’s not a random person robbing a random person. It’s someone who took the time to actively hate her on a chan. A customer

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Guest Mr Froggy
39 minutes ago, PajamaThief said:

doesn't justify people doing it

That's the whole point of what I said in my opening post.  That. Doesn't. Matter. 

Doesn't matter if its justified... Doesn't matter if we condemn it.  Doesn't matter if we show solidarity with victims after the fact.. or try to create an atmosphere that breeds respect and seeks to ** out those who may do something like this in the future. 

This is the Internet... If a particular content creator chooses to mix business and pleasure;  to push divisive politics when people are coming to her primarily for porn... It all greatly increases the risk that she's going to rub some resourceful & spiteful chan-cel the wrong way sooner or later and he'll go out of his way to ruin her life - because he's has come to think she "deserves it". 

 The uncomfortable reality is to recognise that the Internet is a broad enough place that these individuals are always going to exist no matter what we say or do - and the very market for 'personal' porn / 'porn 2.0' / amateur onlyfans style girls has a high number of right wing, lonely, socially malajusted men in it. 

I believe this market will eventually sort this problem out though.  Public awareness of doxxing will continue to increase to the point where only the most extroverted and progressive/brave and/or fatherless girls will dare show their faces.... and very few will try to use their (precarious) 'anonymous' platforms to push political angles that are fundamentally opposed by swathes of their right wing, quasi-incel fanbase. 

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Guest Mr Froggy
35 minutes ago, goodgirlgrow said:

Lastly... this is more like your boss stealing from your paycheck or someshit. It’s not a random crime. It’s like burning down the corner store after the owner raised the price on beer. It’s not a random person robbing a random person. It’s someone who took the time to actively hate her on a chan. A customer

I'm curious if you're more opposed to her being doxxed publically or someone ratting her out specifically to her family? 

Just because that's the usual "doxxing a Camgirl" trope;  ratting a girl out to her Conservative family and ruining her relationships with them by revealing she does porn etc.  If someone does that & only that (without any threats or broader malicious intent) - I don't believe they're breaking any law - yet the majority of 'damage' is still done. 

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1 hour ago, goodgirlgrow said:

Lastly... this is more like your boss stealing from your paycheck or someshit. It’s not a random crime. It’s like burning down the corner store after the owner raised the price on beer. It’s not a random person robbing a random person. It’s someone who took the time to actively hate her on a chan. A customer

I don't know about that. I mean sure, it's entirely feasible that the person who doxxed her was a "customer". I mean, I HAVE seen people up in arms about the whole pay models for videos thing and they absolutely DO feel entitled to compensation if they pay money and are not "given" the thing they "paid" for or are perhaps dissatisfied. But it could be a stranger too, I mean dang when I browse the web I see soooo much hate and ridicule for gorgeous women who choose to gain weight. There are entire forums for fat shaming and I wouldn't put it past someone to go out of there way to dox someone simply for shits and giggles.

With that said, I think that both are relatively far-fetched. When a person gets murdered the police look at the friends and family first because a friend or family member is generally responsible. It may be that she was doxxed by someone reasonably close to her--an ex boyfriend perhaps.

Not that speculation helps whatsoever. I really feel for her because she was kind and gracious. I hate when things like this happen and I don't really know if there IS a solution. It's as if we're all put up to live our lives exactly like others live. We must conform and become homogeneous or be punished by strangers. It's a shame. 

I just wish I could reach out and tell her I'm sorry. I know I'm not to blame or anything, but damn I feel for her because idk I care about the models that stick around and I guess that's me being a simp or whatever, but it genuinely makes me feel bad to see things like this happen because you are real people with real lives and I wouldn't dox my greatest enemy. 😞 
Anyways..sorry for the book.

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MrFroggy’s main argument is that since it’s hard to prosecute the doxxer, we should just throw up our hands and fault the victim for...whatever the doxxer was upset about. 
 

For someone who is so for lAw anD oRdeR it’s staring that you think the fault shouldn’t be with the bad actors themselves. Yes, we should lock our doors and be careful. But if someone breaks in, kills you in your sleep, the public shouldn't be like “this is why even if you have a gun, you shouldn’t sleep that deeply at night. Don’t be mad at the burglar, criminals going to crime—try not to be the one they want to crime on.” No woman in America thinks this is the ideal way to live. 

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