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"Fat shaming and Humiliation" vs. "Body Positivity" in our little community


litmus

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For some time now, I have been bothered by the prevalence of "fat shaming" and "humiliation" in our community.  I frequently see posters repeating the fatphobic memes of the mainstream culture.  Larger women are referred to as "pigs" or "cows".  It is assumed that anyone who is overweight is lazy and their appetite is assumed to be completely out of control.  Even women who are only slightly larger than the mainstream ideal or who have gained a small amount of weight are subjected to these kinds of remarks.

I recognize that a significant subset of folks here, both men and women, get off on this stuff.  They are aroused by teasing and fat shaming.  In particular, there seem to be a lot of men who are turned on by directing humiliating comments at women's bodies. 

I think this deserves discussion.  On one hand, whatever 'floats your boat" should be fine as long as there is mutual consent and no one is harmed. On the other hand, I think these comments reinforce a lot of ill-informed stereotypes about food, health, body image, and are corrosive to the self-esteem of larger people.

As a practical matter, making these kinds of comments seems self defeating to our online community.  Receiving a stream of fat shaming comments can only discourage most models from wanting to post here.

I am probably particularly sensitive to these issues because of a long friendship with a beautiful curvy woman in recovery from bulimia.  Because of her struggles I did a lot of reading about eating disorders.  Pressure to be thin is a primary driver of eating disorders.  Young women who restrict their food intake in an attempt to conform to the overly narrow "beauty standard" end up throwing themselves into eating disorders that are incredibly dangerous, far more dangerous than being moderately overweight.  Recovery is often an extremely difficult process that can dominate an E.D. sufferer's life for decades.

Rather than reinforcing our culture's fatphobic stereotypes, I would very much like to see this community embrace "body positivity" and support finding beauty in a broader range of body types.  I think that would make it easier for fat women to feel good about themselves and allow more men to have an easier time with their attraction to larger women.

These topics aren't simple or easy.  Most of us who are here have struggled to come to terms with our own sexuality.  I don't want to condemn others.  But I do think it is worth discussing why humiliation is arousing to many and how those urges can be redirected or at least  expressed in a more constructive manner.  I hope this thread can promote some respectful discussion.  Thanks!

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Good points, by themselves, but maybe I frequent other parts of the forum, but I don't see this name calling going on. When it happens it is because a poster asks for humiliation or teasing.

But maybe it's even a step further back; is referring to a poster as a pig or a cow necessarily something bad in our context?  I love my wife dearly but have on a blog often referred to her feeding as the same way cattle is fed for maximum gain. Due to bad connotation on her side with a previous relationship I would never call her a cow, but if that weren't the case I wouldn't feel hindered calling her my little cow. 

So, as to your point, the mainstream uses these terms in a negative way but just as a certain stream of feminism has taken back control of the word bitch, without ditching it, we can own terms like pig and cow: the negative aspect is in the mainstream, not here.

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A lot of the fat shaming I am referring to has been in the Katie Cummings thread in the General Video forum.  I have seen other comments directed at public figures in the Fat Celebs forum.

There are several posters who are quite militant about shaming any woman who gains weight, even college girls who gain a few pounds.  I believe these members are a minority, but not sure how many share that aspect of this kink.

If a woman digs being teased, or if partners use terms like pig or cow as a form of endearment, I have no problem with that. I occasionally whisper little comments like that to my wife.  I am more referring to reinforcing negative stereotypes about fat people.  

 

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Why bother?  People generally don't take care of themselves nor communicate.  Then at the other end of the spectrum you have those who are uninhibited and only talk about their weight, like it's the only meaningful thing in their lives.  Body positivity is usually a hypocritical movement to do nothing, complain to get attention, and revert to insecurity at private moments.  It's a circle of life for them, which is why I don't really check these forums much any more.

Though I read halfway through and saw you had a friend who made you tolerate her bulimia (usually insecurities just say no to compliments/money, which is another communication floodgate being sealed).

15 hours ago, allgrownup said:

So, as to your point, the mainstream uses these terms in a negative way but just as a certain stream of feminism has taken back control of the word bitch, without ditching it, we can own terms like pig and cow: the negative aspect is in the mainstream, not here.

Nobody's taking anything back; it's part of what I said in my circle of life above. Lizzo's just as sensitive and bsing with that 100% that bitch she wants to trademark. Guess the moral of the story is twerk wherever and don't look back.

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Guest You're getting fat
17 hours ago, litmus said:

For some time now, I have been bothered by the prevalence of "fat shaming" and "humiliation" in our community.  I frequently see posters repeating the fatphobic memes of the mainstream culture.  Larger women are referred to as "pigs" or "cows".  It is assumed that anyone who is overweight is lazy and their appetite is assumed to be completely out of control.  Even women who are only slightly larger than the mainstream ideal or who have gained a small amount of weight are subjected to these kinds of remarks.

I recognize that a significant subset of folks here, both men and women, get off on this stuff.  They are aroused by teasing and fat shaming.  In particular, there seem to be a lot of men who are turned on by directing humiliating comments at women's bodies. 

I think this deserves discussion.  On one hand, whatever 'floats your boat" should be fine as long as there is mutual consent and no one is harmed. On the other hand, I think these comments reinforce a lot of ill-informed stereotypes about food, health, body image, and are corrosive to the self-esteem of larger people.

As a practical matter, making these kinds of comments seems self defeating to our online community.  Receiving a stream of fat shaming comments can only discourage most models from wanting to post here.

I am probably particularly sensitive to these issues because of a long friendship with a beautiful curvy woman in recovery from bulimia.  Because of her struggles I did a lot of reading about eating disorders.  Pressure to be thin is a primary driver of eating disorders.  Young women who restrict their food intake in an attempt to conform to the overly narrow "beauty standard" end up throwing themselves into eating disorders that are incredibly dangerous, far more dangerous than being moderately overweight.  Recovery is often an extremely difficult process that can dominate an E.D. sufferer's life for decades.

Rather than reinforcing our culture's fatphobic stereotypes, I would very much like to see this community embrace "body positivity" and support finding beauty in a broader range of body types.  I think that would make it easier for fat women to feel good about themselves and allow more men to have an easier time with their attraction to larger women.

These topics aren't simple or easy.  Most of us who are here have struggled to come to terms with our own sexuality.  I don't want to condemn others.  But I do think it is worth discussing why humiliation is arousing to many and how those urges can be redirected or at least  expressed in a more constructive manner.  I hope this thread can promote some respectful discussion.  Thanks!

Yeah, pretend you're here as a social activist and not as an onanist. How convenient that your militancy is perfectly aligned with your sexual fetish. But it's all for the women's sake, of course. "Body positivity" coming from fat fetishists is pious and self-serving. 

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21 hours ago, You're getting fat said:

Yeah, pretend you're here as a social activist and not as an onanist. How convenient that your militancy is perfectly aligned with your sexual fetish. But it's all for the women's sake, of course. "Body positivity" coming from fat fetishists is pious and self-serving. 

So who claimed to be here as a "social activist"?  I am here because I am very attracted to larger women and that attraction is very central to my sex life.

But I am also a human being, and I recognize that the women I know in my own life, as well as and the models I enjoy here, are human beings too.  I give a shit about their feelings, individually, and I care about whether our daughters and wives are comfortable in their bodies or struggle with debilitating self-esteem issues or dangerous eating disorders.

I don't think expressing empathy makes me "pious" and "self-serving".  I would hope that it reflects decency and concern for the impact of my actions on others.  

I am attempting to start a conversation. I don't understand those who are aroused by shaming and humiliation.  From my position as someone who does not share that particular kink, it appears deeply mysogenistic.  Being aroused by insulting or humiliating someone seems to reflect some sort of deep seated hostility.

This seems different than affectionately calling someone's partner a "cute little piggy".  That is a term of endearment.

Why are you bothered by "body positivity"?  To me it seems natural for those who are attracted to larger women to embrace a movement that values all types of bodies and affirms their attractiveness.  

 

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On 12/29/2019 at 9:23 AM, Chevalier said:

Body positivity is usually a hypocritical movement to do nothing, complain to get attention, and revert to insecurity at private moments

 

Body Positivity is an aspirational movement.  It seeks to challenge the dominant view that only slim, lean bodies should be considered beautiful and sexually attractive.  Body Positivity asserts that all body types have value.  Here in the US where the average woman is a Size 14, body positivity overlaps a great deal with size acceptance.

The fact that this movement doesn't always succeed in it's aims, or the fact that individual women may have ups and downs in terms of body confidence doesn't mean that the concept is "hypocritical".  The fact that individuals may use the movement as an excuse for personal eating or exercise habits has nothing to do with its basic merits.

Those of us in the FA community should not buy in to the stereotypes and memes of the dominant culture.  Overweight people are not necessarily lazy, sedentary, un-healthy, nor out of control.  You don't have to binge eat daily to be overweight.  Eating as little as 100 calories per day over your metabolic burn rate can lead to 10-15 pounds of weight gain per year over 5-10 years that can easily lead to a 50-100 pound gain.

Millions of years of evolution with food insecurity and frequent famine has left us with bodies that make it easy to gain weight and extremely difficult to lose it and keep it off.  Repeated studies confirm that 97% of all dieters gain back what they lose within 5 years.  Repeated yo-yo diets tend to slow metabolism and increase weight set-points by convcing the body that it is under threat of famine.

The point is that most people in a modern food abundant society are inclined to gain weight.  We should stop shaming people for that.  We should stop insulting them, stop humiliating them, and stop assualting their self-esteem.

 

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9 hours ago, litmus said:

 

Body Positivity is an aspirational movement.  It seeks to challenge the dominant view that only slim, lean bodies should be considered beautiful and sexually attractive.  Body Positivity asserts that all body types have value.  Here in the US where the average woman is a Size 14, body positivity overlaps a great deal with size acceptance.

The fact that this movement doesn't always succeed in it's aims, or the fact that individual women may have ups and downs in terms of body confidence doesn't mean that the concept is "hypocritical".  The fact that individuals may use the movement as an excuse for personal eating or exercise habits has nothing to do with its basic merits.

Those of us in the FA community should not buy in to the stereotypes and memes of the dominant culture.  Overweight people are not necessarily lazy, sedentary, un-healthy, nor out of control.  You don't have to binge eat daily to be overweight.  Eating as little as 100 calories per day over your metabolic burn rate can lead to 10-15 pounds of weight gain per year over 5-10 years that can easily lead to a 50-100 pound gain.

Millions of years of evolution with food insecurity and frequent famine has left us with bodies that make it easy to gain weight and extremely difficult to lose it and keep it off.  Repeated studies confirm that 97% of all dieters gain back what they lose within 5 years.  Repeated yo-yo diets tend to slow metabolism and increase weight set-points by convcing the body that it is under threat of famine.

The point is that most people in a modern food abundant society are inclined to gain weight.  We should stop shaming people for that.  We should stop insulting them, stop humiliating them, and stop assualting their self-esteem.

 

Exactly, dieting is a waste of time because even if you lose 100 lbs you'll be left with all this loose skin which is worse than having rolls of fat anyway.

Most guys here tend to want their women to be so fat that it becomes unhealthy, as in too fat to tie their sneakers or ride in one airplane seat, I just like a woman with an extra 100 lbs or so who has let herself get fat and couldn't care less about her weight but doesn't try to get as fat as possible, even better if she is an exhibitionist and likes to wear crop top shirts and such and show her fat tummy !

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Guest You're getting fat
22 hours ago, litmus said:

 

Body Positivity is an aspirational movement.  It seeks to challenge the dominant view that only slim, lean bodies should be considered beautiful and sexually attractive.  Body Positivity asserts that all body types have value.  Here in the US where the average woman is a Size 14, body positivity overlaps a great deal with size acceptance.

The fact that this movement doesn't always succeed in it's aims, or the fact that individual women may have ups and downs in terms of body confidence doesn't mean that the concept is "hypocritical".  The fact that individuals may use the movement as an excuse for personal eating or exercise habits has nothing to do with its basic merits.

Those of us in the FA community should not buy in to the stereotypes and memes of the dominant culture.  Overweight people are not necessarily lazy, sedentary, un-healthy, nor out of control.  You don't have to binge eat daily to be overweight.  Eating as little as 100 calories per day over your metabolic burn rate can lead to 10-15 pounds of weight gain per year over 5-10 years that can easily lead to a 50-100 pound gain.

Millions of years of evolution with food insecurity and frequent famine has left us with bodies that make it easy to gain weight and extremely difficult to lose it and keep it off.  Repeated studies confirm that 97% of all dieters gain back what they lose within 5 years.  Repeated yo-yo diets tend to slow metabolism and increase weight set-points by convcing the body that it is under threat of famine.

The point is that most people in a modern food abundant society are inclined to gain weight.  We should stop shaming people for that.  We should stop insulting them, stop humiliating them, and stop assualting their self-esteem.

 

We had the same genetics 50 years ago and there was hardly any obesity. 

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Guest Lady_jayne

I think humiliation is a part of a very broad kink. Weather it's tying someone up making them beg wear a lead it's all about a power over someone. And humiliation like this on a mental spectrum is a much more supreme way of feeding those kinks. Girls signing up to a page like this surley know that their admirers get off on the shaming. 

It's about being secure in yourself. And if you don't like it tell the person. 

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It really comes down to personal preferences, I'm fat and older, and I don't expect anything less from a woman I might date or even marry !

I don't want a flat tummy, I want a woman that has some Luvvies to snatch a hold of and no problem if the boobs are sagging a bit or some cellulite, I'm 56 and like a real woman ! , With a soft belly, Luvvies, larger saggy bosoms,thunder thighs, cellulite, and all that stuff that comes with a 250 lb woman that's like 55 or so !

I can't believe it but I've passed on many girls less than half of my age, one in particular  at just ,18, a couple of years ago was like Playboy centerfold material but so innocent and naive that I just couldn't do it, it would have been like hunting out of season or fishing in a barrel, I often regret that, but I'm a better man for it, as I keep telling myself !

That chance will never happen again, her mother or similar is where I need to be at !

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2 hours ago, Lady_jayne said:

I think humiliation is a part of a very broad kink. Weather it's tying someone up making them beg wear a lead it's all about a power over someone. And humiliation like this on a mental spectrum is a much more supreme way of feeding those kinks. Girls signing up to a page like this surley know that their admirers get off on the shaming. 

It's about being secure in yourself. And if you don't like it tell the person. 

Not everyone here seeks humiliation or power over a partner.  I want to build a woman up, rather than tear her down.  I love encouraging or empowering a woman who may have struggled with food or body image issues to feel more confident and sensual.  I want her to feel free to experience the pleasure of good food and to reject diet culture.  I want her to know that she can eat what she wants, when she wants, and if she does gain some weight it will only increase my attraction.

I realize that others have different arousal responses.  I am just saying those who are in to teasing and especially humiliation should only aim those type of comments at partners or models who have made it clear that they share that kink.  

 

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3 hours ago, You're getting fat said:

We had the same genetics 50 years ago and there was hardly any obesity. 

We have a less active lifestyle that revolves around cars, screens, and prepared foods.  We have also had 50 years of yo-yo diets that have only made us fatter. 

The cars reduce walking. The screens are a technological development that has reduced activity levels.  Prepared foods are a response to two income families that have less time and energy for meal preparation.

It only takes a small change in calorie input/output to make a huge change in weight over time. A 100 calorie imbalance per day can lead to a 50-100 pound gain over 5-10 years.

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To add to what Litmus said, our diets have changed enormously. When my mum was a child, they had 3 meals a day and rarely snacked. Chocolate and fizzy pop (soda) were a rare treat, and there were no frappuccinos or energy drinks. Now we're surrounded by convenient, tempting, high calorie food and drink all the time. It's no wonder people are getting bigger. 

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Guest Lady_jayne
18 hours ago, litmus said:

Not everyone here seeks humiliation or power over a partner.  I want to build a woman up, rather than tear her down.  I love encouraging or empowering a woman who may have struggled with food or body image issues to feel more confident and sensual.  I want her to feel free to experience the pleasure of good food and to reject diet culture.  I want her to know that she can eat what she wants, when she wants, and if she does gain some weight it will only increase my attraction.

I realize that others have different arousal responses.  I am just saying those who are in to teasing and especially humiliation should only aim those type of comments at partners or models who have made it clear that they share that kink.  

 

I think most women on here must have some body confidence otherwise they would be able to post the pics they do. I think most girls on here are stunning as a fat girl seeing the pictures on this site is encouraging my personal image of myself and gives me more body confidence. 

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For me nothing is finer than a woman that has that soft flabby tummy, I'd lick the lint out of her belly button or do almost anything she could request in return for allowing me the joy of feeling her Luvvies. A woman's tummy is so erotic for me, I'm in heaven when a full figured lady sits in my lap!

My hands will just naturally go around her midriff and under her shirt to feel and inspect her Luvvies, navel, etc, then the boobs come into play and so forth.

I particularly enjoy it when she is fat enough that wearing jeans becomes uncomfortable, so she has switched to like 3-4X sweatpants and you can then easily slip your hands in there and feel her (__$__) and pet her kitty at will.

A nice bonus is a gal with large boobs that also enjoys going without a bra, but I understand very well why a woman with larger breasts might feel the need for some support for the old knockers.

The thing I hate the most about my fat body is my man boobs or moobs which are bigger than many skinny chicks that wear like an A or Even a B cup, I always think of that Seinfeld episode with the debate about a mansierre or a Bro between Kramer and Jerry Stiller.

I don't so much mind by belly, but I hate my moobs personally and the idea of some support isn't that farfetched, I can certainly see it if you've got some H cups or something and in particular if you're older and they kind of starting to sort of sag and are starting to hang down your deep sexy navel, a look that I'm fine with, BTW ! I am turned on by busty mature women in particular love the softness in the tummy that only comes with an older lady that hasn't done a sit-up since Reagan was president. I do totally get the conundrum of the sagging titties that might be more comfortable with some support !

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7 hours ago, Lady_jayne said:

I think most women on here must have some body confidence otherwise they would be able to post the pics they do. I think most girls on here are stunning as a fat girl seeing the pictures on this site is encouraging my personal image of myself and gives me more body confidence. 

Nice to have a woman's perspective. How do you feel about fat shaming vs. body positivity? 

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Guest Lady_jayne

I don't mind fat shaming as long as I know the reaction it causes to the man. The arousal of him getting turned on makes me feel good. 

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12 hours ago, Lady_jayne said:

I don't mind fat shaming as long as I know the reaction it causes to the man. The arousal of him getting turned on makes me feel good. 

Nice attitude and fat chicks totally rule the modern world.

In the end the woman has control because she may not have the physical strength over her man, she still has the keys to the proverbial box and backup from the local po-po, and higher up agencies like the FBI, and the courts will all lean severely in her favor.

A smart man would just surrender and realize he has no chance, it's just the way it is !

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5 hours ago, chubbybutt22 said:

I love the humiliation. Also. Even if men are calling you a fat disgusting pig, you know that they think you’re sexy.

Guys should just be honest with themselves and freely admit they have a fetish for fat women, it's quite common to be attracted to plump women and be turned on by bellies and navels.

There are tons of guys that are closet Alvinolagiacs but are embarrassed to date a fat chick because their friends might ridicule them while they secretly are also very attracted to the full figured gals. There is just such an erotic feel to a soft woman with the flabby tummy, the texture of fat rolls or Luvvies is so personal and sexual that it is hard to not want to just grab hold of the luvvies.a woman with a flat firm tummy just doesn't compare, but I appreciate the effort they expend to achieve what society has conditioned to think is the only way to be when in reality most women are overweight and plenty of men prefer it that way ! The only real issue is how fat is too fat ? Many here basically have no limits and are open to any weight, I like to keep it to around 250 or so lbs, even 300 at most. 

I don't care what anyone thinks, I like what I like. We all have our kinks, it's harmless between ,2 ( or maybe 3 ?) Consenting adults, as long as nothing I'll eagle is involved !

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