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Article: My Fat Body is Not Your Fetish


kastemel

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So I feel like this is like kicking a hornet's nest, but I also want to see what happens so http://meloukhia.net/2014/01/my_fat_body_is_not_your_fetish/

Basically? I think she's right. She has the right to not want randos inserting her into their fat fantasies. She's an unwilling participant in other people's fetishes, and I can't blame her for being skeeved. And I don't think it's harmless either, as I see people say things to girls that should have remained strictly internal, and it's clear their fetishing is leaking through to the outside.

I feel like many people have an issue (not just with fat) telling the difference between when a woman wants fetishy attention and when she doesn't--it's worse for fat women, bc they're never not fat, so guys feel like they're always ready to perform.

I wrote a super TLDR post about it on my tumblr if anyone wants to read more expanded thoughts on it: http://kastemel.tumblr.com/post/73468062740/opinion-piece-response-to-my-fat-body-is-not-your

This kinda crap is important to me as I try to be more responsible in this community, and we have been talking about the decline of this forum, so someone indirectly putting us on blast is a good thing, I think.

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Guest Archaic
  I strongly dislike the idea that I, walking down the street, minding my own business, can become the object of some kind of wanker’s fantasy, and I have no control or autonomy here

It sounds like this person desperately wants to control what goes on in the minds of other people. You can't control what other people think, and nor should you want to. Everyone on the planet will be sexualized by someone at some point. Get over it. You are the one with the problem. Not only that, but they have a serious lack of understanding of fetishes. Despite what the author claims, they are fetish negative.

When you tell me that you’re sexually attracted to fat, that skeeves me out.

Good luck being in a relationship with someone who doesn't like your body.

there’s a difference between saying ‘that is an attractive/interesting-looking person, how excellent!’ and expressing a strongly sexualised response to someone because she’s, say, Black with natural hair, and you fetishise Black women with natural hair

Is there even logic in this statement? Is this an actual argument? What is the point you are making? There isn't a difference just because you say there is, you need to, you know, actually prove what you're talking about.

This is textbook pseudo-intellectualism. Using a lot of loaded language/jargon in order to establish a moral high ground without actually making any kind of point at all. There are creepy people in the world. There are mean people in the world. Grow a thicker skin and avoid them. This person is trying to rally a cause against human behaviour. Not shocked they are single. They will probably die alone.

This is a fetish site, so yes you are kicking a hornet's nest.

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I'd like to agree and disagree at the same time.

I'd like to agree that there are people in this community who could completely care less about the woman who is in the photos or videos doing their sets and purely objectifying the person before them. They don't have any need or want to care about who that specific person is, they just care about getting off to the sexualized images.

I'd also like to disagree that you can fetishize, or rather as it's called Partialism, as Wikipedia notes, a person or parts of people's bodies. I will admit that I get turned on and I sexualize men with their arms or the like. I also believe that it is human nature to at some length objectify the opposite or same sex. Whether it be a woman undressing a man with her eyes that's wearing a nice suit, or a guy checking out a woman as she walks by and wonder what she looks like naked. Either way, the urge to procreate with the most attractive person will be there.

I'd also like to say that the great divide is this.

If you don't necessarily need a fat chick to get off to, then by chance you have a preference, which is where I would classify at least, if not most of all the users on curvage that are browsing the site to fap. These are the people that understand there is a woman and an actual person behind the jpegs that she posts on screen. They are the ones that take actual concern of how a model or person may feel. They are the ones that I don't feel the article was addressed to.

The ones I feel the article was addressed to are the ones who feel like they are self entitled into demanding the model do whatever the paying customer, or most of the time, non-paying customer, wants without regard to understanding the actual person behind the fantasy. They are the ones that get caught up in the fantasy of everything and can't back away from making sure their sexual needs are met before anything.

I feel like a lot of us here understand that a model's body is for hers to do with, even if you or another member may not like it. Does that make them bad for oogling a woman on the street that has shapely curves? No, and that sentiment also applies to a woman oogling a guy for having nicely toned arms or the like. However, ultimately, what needs to be considered and respected, is that it's important to not discount these people as just soley means for your pleasure and that there is more to InternetFatGirlWorld than just what it takes to get off. (I know Vennie, you'll probably disagree with your huge porn stash. lol)

However, another point I feel needs to be made, and I can't speak for all models, but rather myself and what I view, is that some models want to be objectified. They don't mind the disconnect between them and whoever is on the opposite side of the screen jerking off to them. They don't mind, and sometimes even crave the satisfaction that they get knowing they get other people off. If you said that porn stars weren't in it to even somewhat be objectified, you'd be lying to yourself. If you said some soft core BBW models weren't in it to be even slightly objectified, I feel like there would be a slight lie there. Paid models need that objectification of a slight form in order to draw in the monetary goals they have. And this leads to a never ending cycle of models wanting to be seen as more than just an object, but at the same time, they hope that people won't stop viewing them because they know that they are catering to a certain demographic that will pay money to see her body. She can break away at any time if she is uncomfortable with it, but realistically, how many would knowing that they can make a living off of men paying for a small glimpse into their life, real or fake.

Again, not all models feel that way, and that's completely understandable. But I would say that there is a percentage of BBW models out there that don't mind and want to be objectified. And again, all models need some level of objectification if they are to be successful. You'd be a bit odd to think that there isn't. I myself know that I will be objectified, but I hope that through my means of letting people into my life, that there will be something for others to actively get to know me through. That they will see me as more than just some girl that has shown off her gaining body and recognize me as a person.

Other than that, I don't really have much to say on the matter. I just hope people can treat others as they'd like to be treated. 

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Vennie, as always, asks the important questions.

I think it's crucial to remember that the author of this piece is completely outside of this sphere. She is, by choice, a non-combatant in the fat-fetish community, and she is entitled to not want to be a part of it. Most fat woman fall into the same category. It's short-sided to think they can only find happiness by finding a person interested in their fat for fat's sake.

To Ayumi's point, some models do want to be objectified, but that's part of the performance aspect of it. They are willing participants in the fetish. Fat is something they DO, in addition to something they ARE. And even if they want that kind of attention, it's dangerous to think they want it all of the time, from anyone, anywhere. You can't walk up to Plump Princess in the mall and talk dirty to her any more than you can walk up to any other performer or model and ask them to perform.

Also, the author of the piece only wants to "control what people think" to the point that she doesn't want men incorporating her without consent into their fantasies. Her body and her fat don't belong to them. There is a gulf of difference between seeing a stranger and appreciating their appearance, and leering at them for daring to be fat in public.

Honestly, the original article could have been written about a lot of things. "My Asian Body is not your fetish". "My Red Hair is not your fetish". "My naturally big chest is not your fetish." The common theme is, when men fetishise a certain aspect of a woman's body, they can often lose sight of her being a human being. This leads to men approaching these women at bars, in the grocery store, at the bus stop, in PUBLIC PLACES, and saying the weird shit you seeing posted under pictures on the internet. What do you think happened to the author of the piece that drove her to write it?

The author doesn't want to control thoughts, but maybe we, the fetish community, should try harder to control our own thoughts.

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Guest Archaic
Also, the author of the piece only wants to "control what people think" to the point that she doesn't want men incorporating her without consent into their fantasies.

How hard is it to understand you don't need someone's consent for things that go inside YOUR OWN MIND. Jesus. That is wanting to control what people think. Literally.

This leads to men approaching these women at bars, in the grocery store, at the bus stop, in PUBLIC PLACES, and saying the weird shit you seeing posted under pictures on the internet

On a list of things that never happened, her getting approached by a feeder in a grocery store asking her to gain 1000 pounds is pretty fucking up there.

  What do you think happened to the author of the piece that drove her to write it?

Lack of self esteem combined with a severely overestimated sense of self importance and entitlement is what I think happened to her.

The author doesn't want to control thoughts

Also, the author of the piece only wants to "control what people think" to the point that she doesn't want men incorporating her without consent into their fantasies.

This is exactly what I mean about lack of logic. There is no consistent thought process. Making two statements in the same breath that are contradictory is a sign of someone who has no real argument to make.

If you think fetishists are bad, evil, creepy, or weird then you should not be here. We get that enough elsewhere, so please do not bring it here, it's not helpful to anyone. The type of person to make constant unwanted sexual advances is not going to turn over a new leaf, and that person's problem isn't that they have a fetish, it's that they can't take no for an answer which is a problem lots of different people have. Fetish has nothing to do with it.

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Vennie, as always, asks the important questions.

I think it's crucial to remember that the author of this piece is completely outside of this sphere. She is, by choice, a non-combatant in the fat-fetish community, and she is entitled to not want to be a part of it. Most fat woman fall into the same category. It's short-sided to think they can only find happiness by finding a person interested in their fat for fat's sake.

To Ayumi's point, some models do want to be objectified, but that's part of the performance aspect of it. They are willing participants in the fetish. Fat is something they DO, in addition to something they ARE. And even if they want that kind of attention, it's dangerous to think they want it all of the time, from anyone, anywhere. You can't walk up to Plump Princess in the mall and talk dirty to her any more than you can walk up to any other performer or model and ask them to perform.

I understand she is out of this sphere, but I was simply relating to things that happen here since you brought her into this realm.

Again I did mention this below:

The ones I feel the article was addressed to are the ones who feel like they are self entitled into demanding the model do whatever the paying customer, or most of the time, non-paying customer, wants without regard to understanding the actual person behind the fantasy. They are the ones that get caught up in the fantasy of everything and can't back away from making sure their sexual needs are met before anything.

I feel like a lot of us here understand that a model's body is for hers to do with, even if you or another member may not like it. Does that make them bad for oogling a woman on the street that has shapely curves? No, and that sentiment also applies to a woman oogling a guy for having nicely toned arms or the like. However, ultimately, what needs to be considered and respected, is that it's important to not discount these people as just soley means for your pleasure and that there is more to InternetFatGirlWorld than just what it takes to get off. (I know Vennie, you'll probably disagree with your huge porn stash. lol)

Again, as I said with the objectification bit, I can't speak for all women. But either way, there is still some level of objectification whether or not they realize it. Of course, the people who aren't part of this community are entitled to not be part of it. But let me say something then. If you respect her enough in her not wanting to be part of the fat fetish community, why did you bring her and her name here? And Yes, I understand that you meant it as a way to strike up discussion, but for the truth and literacy of the matter, you brought her in to a fetishizing community as well.

I also hate to break it to you, but in every day life there is some level of objectification before you ever get to know the other person's name. It happens. When you are going out to find a potential date, along with finding out their personality, are you not sizing her up sexually? Yes.

As an Asian, I realize that some people will be attracted or not to me. That's how life is. You can't control what people are attracted to, you can't control what people find sexy. Yes, I've done it before where I've seen a man with awesome arms and have wanted no more than for him to push me up against the wall to have his way with me. I'm sure a lot of us have, much as I'm sure the author as well, because let's face it, it's so easy to be critical of others but not ourselves. But again, I don't think that's who this was intended to be targeted towards. It was however intended to be targeted towards the people who can't understand people are people, no matter if they are showing you their bodies. And as I said above, a good majority of the users here have a really good grasp on that concept.

Also with the bit about how the author isn't trying to control our thoughts, You essentially contradicted yourself in the third paragraph here you said "The author of the piece only wants to control what people think." No matter what, she is trying to control how humans think. She is essentially invalidating what is normal human nature. You don't just "appreciate" a person's appearance when you see it. Do you honestly, and I mean honestly, just say when a woman that looks smoking hot walks by, "I appreciate her figure."

But here's the question I then have. Is it wrong of people to have fetishes. Especially so when she has no right to tell you how to think, how to believe. It's one thing for her to be Told that she is explicit wank material and outright told that her fat turns people on. However, you can't tell someone to stop finding something they find sexy, sexy. Or you can't tell someone what they can and cannot fap to. This is just as bad as Athiests or religious people telling others that their way of thinking is bad and that they shouldn't do it because they'll go to hell, or that they are just stupid for believing made up stories.

By putting this out here, you are essentially invalidating people's abilities to be who they are in a place that is supposed to be a safe place to express things that they can't with fat chicks out there in the non-FatGirlWorld. It's one thing if you've got guys saying things like they would on here out in the real world. But you have to remember that Curvage, along with other fat sites are safe places where people can live out their fetishes and be sparred that moment of free thinking that they may otherwise not be able to do in the REAL WORLD.

I don't blame you for bringing this article in here to discuss this, and we have talked about some topics in relation to this and how fetishes and preferences have affected people in their lives. That is what makes Curvage an amazing place is because we can talk about these things.

Also, I would have to agree that people who make unwanted sexual advances are the ones who can't take no for an answer. A lot of men on Curvage are fairly respectable to women. Of course we have had some bad apples that are the prime example of not taking No for an answer, but as you can see as well, the mod staff, along with a lot of users do not tolerate it.

If you think fetishists are bad, evil, creepy, or weird then you should not be here. We get that enough elsewhere, so please do not bring it here, it's not helpful to anyone. The type of person to make constant unwanted sexual advances is not going to turn over a new leaf, and that person's problem isn't that they have a fetish, it's that they can't take no for an answer which is a problem lots of different people have. Fetish has nothing to do with it.

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There's a lot here, I'm not sure if I can respond to all of it but here goes:

But again, I don't think that's who this was intended to be targeted towards. It was however intended to be targeted towards the people who can't understand people are people, no matter if they are showing you their bodies. And as I said above, a good majority of the users here have a really good grasp on that concept.

I hope I'm preaching to the choir then. I think that the thing being criticized here isn't a black or white "some people do it, others don't" issue, but I think most people of guilty to it to a degree, and maybe we should be aware of it?

I brought this up to start a discussion, and instead it's turning into this sort of extreme issue. I'm not saying that enjoying looking at fat women isn't "allowed". That would be absurd.

Also with the bit about how the author isn't trying to control our thoughts, You essentially contradicted yourself in the third paragraph here you said "The author of the piece only wants to control what people think." No matter what, she is trying to control how humans think.

That's out of context. I even put it in quotes. She doesn't want to literally control human thoughts, come on.

She is essentially invalidating what is normal human nature. You don't just "appreciate" a person's appearance when you see it. Do you honestly, and I mean honestly, just say when a woman that looks smoking hot walks by, "I appreciate her figure."

What I think is closer to "appreciation" than it is to the kind of creepy entitled implied by the author and found all over tumblr.

But here's the question I then have. Is it wrong of people to have fetishes. Especially so when she has no right to tell you how to think, how to believe. It's one thing for her to be Told that she is explicit wank material and outright told that her fat turns people on. However, you can't tell someone to stop finding something they find sexy, sexy. Or you can't tell someone what they can and cannot fap to.

She, and I, don't make this argument anywhere. She argues that fetishes that involve participation are great, and fun and good, and that while some fat ladies ARE participants in fat fetishism, most aren't, so please don't assume they are. She explicitly says that it's great that people are attracted to fat people. She just doesn't like it if people only are interested in her fat, because it's hella dehumanizing.

By putting this out here, you are essentially invalidating people's abilities to be who they are in a place that is supposed to be a safe place to express things that they can't with fat chicks out there in the non-FatGirlWorld. It's one thing if you've got guys saying things like they would on here out in the real world. But you have to remember that Curvage, along with other fat sites are safe places where people can live out their fetishes and be sparred that moment of free thinking that they may otherwise not be able to do in the REAL WORLD.

I'm not invalidating anything, that's an extreme misrepresentation of what I'm trying to do here. I'm not trying to persecute people for thought crimes. I'm not trying to abolish preferences, or sexual attraction. I'm just saying we should examine the way we do things sometimes.

It is, obviously, everyone's right to like what they like, for whatever reason. If you like fat women, that is great. I do too, obviously.

But I'm saying that maybe... to be specific... nabbing pictures of a person on Facebook and posting them here... or taking candid photos... or reblogging someone's fatshion photo from their clothing blog to your porn blog. Those are icky, right? Like, context is important. People should have some right over how they are perceived, especially women who already get leered at constantly and scrutinized by rape culture everywhere.

Maybe I didn't build a good enough foundation before I posted this article, I dunno. I posted it because I want to talk about it. I read it, I got defensive, then I opened up and thought about it and realized I had room to change. And I posted it because while I like Curvage, and spend time here, I also want it to be better.

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Maybe I didn't build a good enough foundation before I posted this article, I dunno. I posted it because I want to talk about it. I read it, I got defensive, then I opened up and thought about it and realized I had room to change. And I posted it because while I like Curvage, and spend time here, I also want it to be better.

Well then, what specifically do you want better? Because you never really listed an points of contention for us to really discuss. Posting this article made it sound like it is somehow bad to enjoy their preferences and fetishes in a safe place where they normally are not able to in the real world.

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...and irritatingly, a lot of chubby chasers seem to think they’re doing us some kind of favour by being the only people willing to fuck us...

I don't like blanket statements, and this is exactly why.

I think I'm a fairly regular guy, but I enjoy feederism. Like - I assume - most guys who aren't into it, I generally enjoy sexual thoughts often throughout the day, without really even being mindful of it. I've sure we've all heard the statistics that men think about sex 1000 times a day.

Look: if you find fat people hot, that’s cool...but that doesn’t mean you get to fetishise me just because you saw my fat...

While it's not an open invitation to appreciate her beauty, to me this suggests a major cognitive dissonance.

I'm not allowed to enjoy my personal, sexual thoughts, because they make her uncomfortable?...but people who enjoy more vanilla or 'baseline' sexual imagery is permitted?

To tie this together with my earlier point about the frequency of sexual thoughts, I will just say that the realm of fantasy that exists in my mind belongs exclusively to me, and I will imagine whatever I damn well please there.

I have no obligation to cultivate any sort of mental awareness or discipline in order to remove what are natural and enjoyable thoughts to me. I do not stare in public nor do I creep on anyone, so if she wants to imagine a problem where there is one, that is simply her problem.

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Guest Archaic

Archaic has been deliberating misunderstanding the original article and all of my arguments and I'm not debating with him.

Not agreeing and explaining why is not deliberately misunderstanding, it's deliberately pointing out the flaws in it's logic. It's like you think if someone doesn't agree with your opinion they are misunderstanding it? I understand it perfectly, it's just a terrible argument and I proved to you that you were making conflicting statements. After my first reply you didn't offer any insight or further explanation, you just paraphrased what the author had said. You are not debating me because you are losing, not because I'm not giving you the chance to respond. Don't get it twisted.

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Guest Archaic

Also if your idea of making Curvage better is trying to pathologize male sexuality and make people feel guilty about their fantasies or preferences I think I can speak for everyone when I say that kind of thing is not welcome here.

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Guest Archaic
People should have some right over how they are perceived

If you actually believe this is true then FAs have the right to be perceived as having normal, healthy, and respectable sexual tendencies. I'm not saying I want to CONTROL your mind, I just have a better idea of what your mind should be like and I think you have a responsibility to change it according to what I personally think is acceptable. It's not like that means I want to change your mind. I just want it to be different. That's all.

Cognitive Dissonance. Look it up.

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This is textbook pseudo-intellectualism. Using a lot of loaded language/jargon in order to establish a moral high ground without actually making any kind of point at all. There are creepy people in the world. There are mean people in the world. Grow a thicker skin and avoid them. This person is trying to rally a cause against human behaviour. Not shocked they are single. They will probably die alone.

You hit the nail on the head with this one. 

Fetishes are complicated—I’ve written extensively about them and I feel again the need to make the point that I am fetish-friendly and supportive of fetishes, when they don’t involve a fundamental part of someone’s identity.

Technically, this is correct- sexual fixation on a particular body part is called partialism. But if the author knew that she would have titled her article "my fat body is not your partialism". But her rant would have been equally moot since you can't control other's thoughts.

Much of what she's written isn't driven by logic but rather how she thinks the world "should" be, according to her terms. Seems like a lot of rationalization. Furthermore, to me the whole thing smacks of "pay attention to me because I'm telling you how much to not pay attention to me".

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Guest myownway

About the article... I realy don't understand why a certain degree of objectification is considered mutually exclusive with things like love, respect, admiration and so on.

I love my wife, I like her for who she is and she is my best friend. Still, I do objectify her body. And I like it when she lets me handle it as an object of my pleasure. I do the same for her by the way. I love her and I love her being my fucktoy, and I have nothing against being a fucktoy for her, as long as she loves me. For me, a lot of sexual energy in a relationship comes from the fact, that people in it sort of lend themselves to one another, to get used for mutual pleasure.

I think that objectification is not wrong per se. It is wrong when you can't perceive a person as anything else but an object. But as long as you see someone as an object AND a person - no harm done.

I hope that makes sense :P.

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I'm sorry but I can't help to use this quote to say:

I don't like blanket statements, and this is exactly why.

I think I'm a fairly regular guy, but I enjoy feederism. Like - I assume - most guys who aren't into it, I generally enjoy sexual thoughts often throughout the day, without really even being mindful of it. I've sure we've all heard the statistics that men think about sex 1000 times a day.

While it's not an open invitation to appreciate her beauty, to me this suggests a major cognitive dissonance.

I'm not allowed to enjoy my personal, sexual thoughts, because they make her uncomfortable?...but people who enjoy more vanilla or 'baseline' sexual imagery is permitted?

To tie this together with my earlier point about the frequency of sexual thoughts, I will just say that the realm of fantasy that exists in my mind belongs exclusively to me, and I will imagine whatever I damn well please there.

I have no obligation to cultivate any sort of mental awareness or discipline in order to remove what are natural and enjoyable thoughts to me. I do not stare in public nor do I creep on anyone, so if she wants to imagine a problem where there is one, that is simply her problem.

They call it a spank bank for a reason and you CAN'T control that!  :-*

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I'm honestly surprised that this is going over so badly here, which leads me to think that I'm reading the article differently. I posted it in good faith thinking that we could have a discussion about it, and instead everyone's been defensive.

I do want to thank Brett.Davids for bringing up partialism, and I agree that the original article would have been accurate if she'd have used that term instead.

I have to go to work so I don't have time to respond to everything, but I just really want to state that I've never said I think sexuality is bad or that fat appreciation and even feitshization are wrong. That's a flat out misconstruing of my argument here.

I would like to pose the following question, however: if a random girl finds that pictures have been taken of her in public and put on a forum like this, does she have the right to be angry? To me that's what's at stake here. I understand that no one really has any ability to control how they perceived or what people do while thinking about their bodies, but they have the right to hate it, and maybe we should think about WHY.

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I'm honestly surprised that this is going over so badly here, which leads me to think that I'm reading the article differently. I posted it in good faith thinking that we could have a discussion about it, and instead everyone's been defensive.

I do want to thank Brett.Davids for bringing up partialism, and I agree that the original article would have been accurate if she'd have used that term instead.

I have to go to work so I don't have time to respond to everything, but I just really want to state that I've never said I think sexuality is bad or that fat appreciation and even feitshization are wrong. That's a flat out misconstruing of my argument here.

I would like to pose the following question, however: if a random girl finds that pictures have been taken of her in public and put on a forum like this, does she have the right to be angry? To me that's what's at stake here. I understand that no one really has any ability to control how they perceived or what people do while thinking about their bodies, but they have the right to hate it, and maybe we should think about WHY.

You haven't been around the forum much I gather. We have had quite a few women who were not okay with their pics being posted here and they were upset. Never once did we say "she can't be upset." We agree that she has a right to be upset and a lot of us here don't always condone pics of random chicks, especially if you know them personally, being posted without consent. We've had instances where wives have found out about their husbands posting their images here. A lot of us were somewhat like "dude, why didn't you think to ask your wife?"

Never once in the years that I've been here seen someone point out that a woman doesn't have the right to be angry if her photos are found to be here. We also don't condone people pretending to be women. When we find out someone has stolen photos or has used them to pose as another person, the photos, if not the accounts, are promptly deleted or banned.

I also brought up partialism in my post, but you didn't notice that.

The reason this was taken so negatively, again, is because ultimately you are bringing a generalization about FA men into a realm which is a safe place for people to explore that fantasy. Especially when these people already receive criticism about their preferences. You already said that she knows there are people who do it consensually, and this audience does their fantasies consensually. You're ultimately talking to what could be the wrong crowd as far as discussing it goes.

Another reason is that most people here understand how to act towards women, and by posting this article and making the broad claim that we should change our thinking, you're essentially saying that it is wrong for this community to be as it is. Especially again, where plenty of individuals here know that women are more than their fat here, especially on curvage.

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